Welcome to the very first episode of BFFs and Boybands, where we talk about “Friendship, Fandom, and the Boybands we love”! Carrie loves One Direction and Muse loves BTS and we talk about the things our fandoms share, how they’re different, and why we’re so invested.
Show notes
Season One, Episode one
“Introductions”
00:43 We introduce ourselves
03:16 How did we meet?
05:07 How did Carrie start liking One Direction?
09:07 We touch on the subject shame around liking Boybands
10:49 How did Muse get into BTS?
14:03 We talk about how the music finds you at the right moment
16:20 The kinship that comes with fandom, and why this podcast is about two different groups
21:04 Who should listen to this show?
28:19 Community in grief (and excitement), we talk briefly about Liam Payne’s death
30:27 The Boy of the Week!
31:19 What is ‘fan chant order’ and why is it important?
32:26 Let’s talk about the leader of BTS: RM or Kim Namjoon!
39:01 Closing notes, next show and contact info
Additional notes, memes and music:
15:11 Carrie references “The Adventerous Adventures of One Direction”, a fan-made cartoon series featuring the members of One Direction as superheroes. You can find more info here: https://onedirection.fandom.com/wiki/The_Adventurous_Adventures_of_One_Direction
And a Youtube playlist here:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLd0DtPD-wsy90CKvEcei5CsVy0eyG-Sv4
38:06 Muse references the show “Are You Sure”, episode 4 which can be found on Disney Plus
Songs we mention:
“What Makes You Beautiful” by One Direction
“Idol” by BTS
“Black Swan” by BTS
“Lonely” by RM
“Neva Play” by Megan Thee Stallion feat. RM
Listen to our Season 1 Playlist
...on Youtube Music here: https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9WhMVmTww0BsmXJAZH0FSuXYaeTR1_O9&si=FqHJfIjK4g1tFH2Y
...on Tidal here: https://tidal.com/playlist/bb1a4982-6b7c-48ca-bec0-a09f41851765
...on Apple Music here: https://music.apple.com/ca/playlist/bffs-and-boybands-season-1/pl.u-PDb44KBTkP6LoK
Our Contact Information:
E-mail: bffsandboybands@gmail.com
Bluesky: @bffsandboybands.bsky.social
Show Credits
BFFs and Boybands is brought to you by your hosts: Carrie and Muse
BFFs and Boybands Logo and branding is by Megan Berry and Jeff Leblanc
Our Theme song is “Light Summer Pop” by SingleFX via Audio Jungle
https://audiojungle.net/item/light-summer-pop/57537454
The “Boy of the Week” logo chime is from Universfield, via Pixabay
Special thanks to every single one of you who has listened, offered feedback and support, and generally been kind and generous with your time and your love.
And very special thanks to BTS and One Direction for making our lives better by sharing themselves and their music.
Muse
Welcome to BFFs and Boy Bands, the show where we talk about
Carrie
Our friendship,
Muse
Fandom
Carrie
And the boy bands we love. I'm Carrie, I'm One Direction Bestie.
Muse
And I'm Muse, I'm BTS Army Bestie.
Carrie
This episode on BFFs and Boy Bands...
Muse
Introductions.
Yay! Welcome to BFFs and boy bands! We're finally doing it! After 30 years of friendship, we are starting a podcast.
Carrie
It's true.
Muse
I think we should start off by introducing ourselves.
Muse
I am Muse. I'm a writer. I live in Montreal area and I am BTS ARMY. ARMY being the fandom name for BTS. We'll probably get into this, what fandom names are, but BTS is a K-pop band and in K-pop you actually name your fandom. So ARMY we are the “Adorable Representative MC for Youth”, which no one uses. We just call ourselves ARMY. But it not about being a fighting force. And I'm a mom, I'm nearly 50. I have a kid who's a teenager. And I love this boy band and it has entirely changed my life. And so we were talking and we decided that we should do a podcast about this. And that's why I'm here.
Carrie
I'm Carrie. I am a mom of two. One is a teenager, one's in his twenties. And I generally work with children in my real life career. And I am a Directioner, which is a One Direction fan name for our group. And we just sort of bonded over our 30 years of friendship and also both being in fandoms.
I came out to Muse as a fan of One Direction a couple of years ago. And ever since then, Muse has become my go-to person for sharing exciting things and sad things in the fandom. And as soon as something happens, texts go immediately to my friend Muse.
Muse
I think I contacted you because I was getting big into BTS about... almost two years ago now. And I was like, I need someone to join me in this fandom. And you texted me back and you were like, “actually, I'm already in this other fandom?”
Carrie
I think I was just kind of newly in it and I was still being like, I'm not, like, a “fandom person”. I just really liked the. But... I was a fandom person. I was just in some denial.
Muse
And you sent me a picture. And I was like, “is that Harry Styles?”
Carrie
Did I?
Why yes, yes it is. Yes, it-- Actually for me, I mean, I've been a fan of them ever since they started back in 2010 because I had a love of boy bands prior to that with New Kids on the Block and such. But when--
Muse
And we bonded over that when we met.
Carrie
Yes, exactly.
Muse
Back in the day.
Carrie
Back in the day. Do you remember when we met?
Muse
I do. Do you? I'm actually curious what you remember and how it's different from what I remember.
Carrie
Hahaha
Carrie
So I remember it was the first week of university and I had to do the French placement tests so they could figure out which class to put me in. And I was waiting for the lab to open and there was this person standing near me and we were both kind of waiting for the same thing and making awkward small talk. And then I guess the next step is now we're besties. So I'm not sure how that transitioned. I don't remember that part.
Muse
I think... it's that awkward thing on the first day of university where you get there and it's so different from high school. And you don't know anyone. And if you know anyone from your high school, they're probably not standing next to you in like, you know, the back hallway of the French department waiting for the placement exam.
And then we got placed in the same class, which I think helped.
Carrie
Yes. And we quickly realized that we're both a little weird and found the same things really hilarious and took off from there.
Muse
We were kindred spirits.
Carrie
We really, yes, we are and continue to be kindred spirits. And I credit you with helping me get through that French degree way back when because otherwise I probably wouldn't have been able to.
Muse
I think we got each other through, if I'm honest.
Carrie
Yeah.
Muse
So we joked, we joked all through university. We were the Carrie and Muse show. We would just, at the bus stop, pretend that we were talking to an audience. So I think three decades on is high time that we started a podcast about something.
Carrie
I mean, we just have to wait till they invented the technology for us to really get our voice heard.
Muse
The world wasn't ready before, But it is. I think it is now.
Carrie
The world was not ready. Yes. And I think everything we do is just show-worthy. So I mean, why not now?
Muse
So that's the best friend story. Moving on to the boy bands, you said you had been into One Direction since 2010.
Carrie
Yes
Muse
Tell me how that came about, because I didn't know about this.
Carrie
So back when New kids on the Block were a thing, they were my age and I was their age. I was a Joey girl. He was what, 13, 14 as was I. It was completely, you know, there were girls at school who would go to the concert and come back and they would just be the coolest things ever. And I was in it to win it. And then I stayed in there. Like I kept my finger on the pulse of that through the years.
So when these guys were coming through with X Factor. We didn't get it here in North America, but of course, the internet. And I was seeing glimpses. And then when they came out with their first single, which is “What Makes you Beautiful”, I I was like, “yes, this is the boy band of days of yore. They're just sweet kids. They look like they're having a great time.” I love the harmonies of a boy band that had every element that I liked. And I thought, J”okay, I can get into this. “
And at the time my daughter was three? Three or four when they started. So within a couple of years, she really latched onto them. They would play their songs in her dance class and she would do little dances and I would watch and I would just be living my best dance mom life watching that. And I always was like, “They're just so cute.” And then when they came out, I think the first couple albums, I was like, ‘They're just so cute.’ And I would kind of listen without actually realizing that I was really into it. It was like, I was accidentally listening, but like... all the time.
And then around the third and fourth albums and a lot more of their stuff was going on the radio and they had a lot of videos and their sound had matured. And I was like, “actually, I really like these guys.” So I always had them in the peripheral, but I was also a busy mom, young kids doing my thing. I was in my thirties. I was like, you know, “I'm too old to be a fan girl, but I do like these kids.”
And then it wasn't until after the hiatus had been going for a couple of years. And I realized that I'm still listening to them just as much as I was. And I would still get just as excited if I saw something online or a song come on the radio or I was in the grocery store and a song would come on, I'd be like, “Aww” And then when they started coming with solo stuff, that's when I was like, ”No, I'm really into these guys and as a group and as individuals.”
So then during the quarantine, when I really had time to kill, I did a lot of deep diving and that's when I really, really started to learn more about them. The stuff that I didn't really know much about because I was kind of on the peripheral back when they first started. So like all the stuff that happened between like 2011, 2015. And then from there, just like Harry came out with an album and I became obsessed and it just kept going, kept going.
And then along the way I became a standout Louis fan. So when he came out with solo stuff and he just had so much happen that thwarted him at every step, when he finally got to tour and I was just so excited. And then he released Faith in the Future and I was like, “I'm going to that tour. I don't even care.” And I did. My middle-aged mom self got myself to the Toronto show and I got involved in planning the fan project and it was so much fun. And I made so many friends and fandom friends are unlike any other friends because it doesn't matter your age or your location. You all share an interest.
And now it's just a huge part of who I am as a person.
Muse
I didn't realize that it wasn't until they started doing solo stuff that you sort of said like, “oh, I know I really am into this.”
Carrie
Yeah, before it was, you know, when I worked with kids at daycare and I would play their stuff at daycare because it was child-friendly. And everyone would kind of be like, “Who are you playing the for you or them?” Cause I'd be, you know, rocking out and living my best life. And the kids would be like, “Can we listen to this?” I'd like, “Yeah, after this.”
So for me, I still kept it as something that was, well, it was not really for me because “I'm old and you know, I'm just, I'm dabbling in their world, but I'm too old.”
And then when I let myself, you know, kind of as you get closer to 40 and you don't care anymore what people think? And you aren't apologizing for things that you like because what is life if not enjoying what you enjoy and the rest of the world can kind of go on around you. So then that's when I started giving myself permission to be like, “No, I do like them in my own right.” So, and that happened to coincide with when they were starting to come out with solo stuff.
Muse
Yeah, I've actually worked through a lot of that shame as well. Although much later, I think, because it was only really after I started liking BTS.
We were both into New Kids. We've already said that. And when I was big into New Kids, after that all happened, I kind of put it behind me as like, “that was just a silly phase that I had as a teenager and I was a teenage girl” and I had a lot of shame around it.
Carrie
Yeah, same. And it becomes almost a societal thing that, know, like New Kids on the Block. When you're in it and you're the same age as them and it's a whole thing and people still look down on you for it, but then you almost feel like you're some sort of imposter or you should grow out of it when everybody else does kind of thing.
But that’s no...that's what I realized. It's not just about, it's what the boy band kind of movement is. The sound makes me happy, like those harmonies that they do and they have the camaraderie and I just... everything about it makes me happy. So why shouldn't I enjoy it?
Muse
Mmm! I actually, I got into BTS in, it was November of 2023, which they had been around for 10 years by that point. And I had heard of them. Hilariously enough, I knew several people who had become fans.
And I thought several years previous to all of this that “Man, anyone who gets into this BTS thing, like really falls into a rabbit hole. And I think I don't need that in my life. I don't need more hobbies. I don't need more things to just like make my entire personality. So I'm going to leave that over there and those people can have it. And it's great for them.” And my daughter came to me in early twenty twenty three and said, “Mom, I'm really getting into K-pop.”
and I said, “Do you like BTS?” Because I had heard of them. And she was like, “Well, actually I like this other group, Tomorrow X Together.” And one of the things that I remember about being into New Kids on the Block was that nobody understood.
Carrie
Yes.
Muse
And my parents teased me about it. I don't mean in a mean way, but they would never learn their names. They would always say “Is that the one you like? Is that the one you like?” And so when my daughter said “I'm really into this music and nobody I know likes it,” I was like, “Well, I'll learn their names for you.”
Carrie
That's lovely.
Muse
And I didn't think that I would ever tell them apart because honestly, they're five cute boys who keep changing their hair color. So I'm like, “the one with the blue hair, that's Yeonjun!” “No, that's Soobin.” and I'm like, “Okay, no, I actually, I actually have to look at them and not just their hair color and figure out who they are.” But I did learn, I did eventually learn who her favorite was, and then started listening to their music.
And then because I liked their music, I said, “Well, I should listen to these BTS guys. They're another K-pop group and they're like wildly popular.” And that was in November of 2023 that I started listening to it and it became...
Muse
In November of 2023, I was in a very deep depression. And BTS became the thing that lifted me out of it. And it was almost like every time that I hit a wall with like, “This isn't for me. You know, I'm in my late forties. I'm a mom. I put that whole New Kids on the Block thing behind me. That was a teenage thing that I went through. This isn't something that I should be doing.” And then I would find their song, Idol. And Idol is about, ‘you can call me an artist, you can call me an idol, you can call me whatever you want. I don't care. I'm proud of who I am.’ And the line from the song is, “You can't stop me loving myself.”
And then after that, I heard the song Black Swan. Black Swan is about dealing with creative depression. Black Swan is about feeling like you will never make anything of value again.
Carrie
Wow
Muse
And that hit me because that's exactly where I was in that moment. I was really in a place where I was like, “I don't think I will ever write anything of value again.” And I found the song that's like, here are these guys, these global superstars who are so loved, and so talented, and so incredible at what they do. And they too are struggling, in the same way that I'm struggling. And that was powerful.
Carrie
Wow. That's super powerful. The timing of it, you know, if you were in a better place mentally at the time, would you have paid such close attention? Would you be in this fandom and have met the people you've met? So it's like things that happen, happen for a reason when they're meant to happen and help shape you into who you become.
Muse
We say in the fandom: They find you when it's your time.
Carrie
Do they really say that? Because that's exactly what happened to you.
Muse
Let me see if I can remember the phrase because I have it on a little meme image that I retweet from time to time... “Being an ARMY isn't a choice. It's something that happens when BTS decides it's your time.”
Carrie
Well, yeah, that's exactly what happened to you. So now that's kind of giving me the chills. It's like the cat distribution system, but it's like the boy band distribution system. You get picked up when you're meant to.
Muse
I kind of like to imagine them with like a little spreadsheet?
Carrie
Yeah, exactly. It's like there's...
Muse
They're like, “Okay, who we got this week? Oh! Muse is in deep depression. We better go get her before she like cries herself to sleep again.”
Carrie
Oh my God, they live on an island and they're superheroes, aren't they? It's like “The Adventurous Adventures of One Direction", but like the K-pop version.
Muse
Does One Direction do the same thing?
Carrie
Well, no, there was a, I forget the guy's name. I should know these things before I come and talk about it. He did a series of YouTube shorts that were animated and it was called “The Adventurous Adventures of One Direction” and they were superheroes. And it's probably the most hilarious thing I've ever seen in my life. But it stood the test of time within the fandom. So people still watch it and bring it up and we can talk about it in later episode and I'll learn more about who did it. I forget his name.
Muse
And we can put it, we can find out and put it in the show notes too.
Carrie
Yeah, I've forgotten kind of about that until the visual I was getting when you were talking was literally them doing their in their outfits.
Muse
Yeah, and the thing for me, I don't know if your fandom is like this at all, the thing that was really weird for me was every time I talk to someone about getting so deep into this, this K-pop rabbit hole, they say, you know, “Oh, that happened to me too. They saved me too.”
Carrie
That's beautiful. And the kinship that comes with this experience is, think probably... You know, yes, I enjoy their music and yes, I enjoy them as people from what I can see on the outside looking in. But the kinship with other people who understand. And I remember looking for that connection as well and kind of feeling the same way. And I ended up on Twitter, which... touch and go.
But I got added to a group called the “Vintage Fans” or something. And I was like, “Okay, so get the seniors home ready, I guess?” But it was adults and it was people who were older and kind of going through the same thing I was, which was almost like a bit embarrassed or shameful and kind of a little reluctant to really get into the meat of it all and stuff. So then when I started getting closer to them, that helped me come out of my little shell.
Muse
Do they call you the vintage fans? Is that an in-fandom term?
Carrie
No, I think it was whoever started that little offshoot in Twitter called it that. And so then we just started calling us ourselves that.
There's some that act as though we don't have a right to be in the fandom. Again, that can be for another episode.
Muse
Yeah, I do want to do an episode talking about what it means to be an older fan.
Carrie
Like doing this podcast is... where it's not about One Direction. It's not about BTS. It's about fandom life and our perspective as sort of older members of the fandoms that we're in. And objectively, we both have the same kinds of things that are happening in the fandoms and the same sort of groupings that happen and all that sort of thing.
And that's what brought us to do this was because there's podcasts about One Direction, there's podcasts about BTS, but just the fandom piece itself and what it is to belong to a fandom and all the little ins and outs and bits and bobs in that, I find super interesting. So it's a good way for us to explore, you know, the parasocial relationships, and the scandals, and the arguments that happen. You know, and especially with One Direction where they are not together right now, there's solos and there's just a whole bunch of rabbit holes within the rabbit hole. So to be able to sort of peel into that is gonna be really interesting.
Muse
Yeah, and there's memes and there's different ways that people feel about the music. And like, the more that we talked, when I called you up and was basically like, “Carrie, you’ve got to get into this BTS stuff. It's amazing. And I'm like totally lost. I need someone to talk about this with.”
The more that we started talking about our fandoms together and you were telling me about One Direction, I was telling you about BTS, the more I realized that these fandoms are so much alike.
Carrie
Yeah.
Muse
It's really fascinating that we share it, but we don't.
Carrie
Exactly. Exactly. And it's kind of nice because I have my people that I share stuff with. I have my group chats and whatnot. But when I share it with you, I get to explain the lore and really get into it because you don't know and you want to know.
And that makes me appreciate even more deeply than within the people who already know. Because one sentence in there and we're all like on the same page and we all have a good laugh or whatever. But to be able to go to you and be like, “So here's the thing...” and kind of launch into it. It makes it even more fun for me. So it's nice that you're, you're like fandom-adjacent with me.
Muse
Yeah, because oftentimes when you sit down with someone and you're like, “Okay, I have to explain to you this thing that Jimin said,” but in order to explain to you why the thing that Jimin said is funny, I have to explain to you like five years of BTS history.
And if I sit down with my husband, he's going to get bored.
Carrie
Yes. Yes.
Muse
Bless him. He will listen, but he does get bored. And so I think because you get exactly how this happens, when I take it to you, you're like,”Oh my God” because you know exactly what it's like.
Carrie
Yes, exactly. The experience is the same even if the information is different.
Muse
Yes.
And I think... this has never been and will not ever be for us about like ‘Which fandom is better?’
Carrie
No, no.
Muse:
There's not-- This is fandom supporting fandoms. This is like, “Your boys are great. My boys are great. Let's talk about how great they are. Let's talk about the ways in which our fandoms are great” and really just connect with one another on that fandom level.
Carrie
Absolutely.
Muse
So, that to say, that's how we got here and that's kind of what this podcast is about. It's just about us connecting about our fandoms.
Muse
Who do we want to listen? In your mind, who is listening to this right now?
Carrie
Well, I think anybody who's in a fandom and even was in a fandom. Anybody who is maybe someone who was into New Kids on the Block, but then didn't stay connected to that realm and maybe nostalgia kicks in.
And it was very different back then. We didn't have the internet, we didn't have Twitter, we didn't have TikToks, we didn't have group chats, but we still managed to have a very global phenomenon in our fan-ness. So all those pieces that we've grown up with and into with this technology that we've come into, we can appeal to a lot of people.
And I think anybody who's interested in the sociology of fandom would benefit from this conversation because there's things like kind of a meta experience when you kind of step away from it, but are still in it and you're watching, you know, the fights or the staunchly held opinions and assumptions that people will die on that Hill to defend, even if none of us know for sure, because none of us actually know these guys. All those things that happen, that in itself is super interesting to me because it really speaks to where we are as a society and the parasocial piece in the relationships and how we think we know these guys.
Specifically with One Direction, they were super active on Twitter when they were first starting out and then it became a very symbiotic relationship back and forth with them. So the parasocial piece really cemented and-- Dare I say too far sometimes?
You can have an opinion, you can have an assumption, and you can look at body language, you can look at whatever you want and sort of make your own theory. But to be as adamant as some are, I find that interesting because you don't know, none of us know. But you are certainly going to war with it. I think that's something I would like to learn more about.
Muse
So I think the whole parasocial relationship is really interesting. We definitely do want to talk about that in a future episode: the good and the bad about it. I think too, when people say parasocial relationships, they're like, “well, you don't want to have a parasocial relationship.” And I'm like, it's not. It's not uniquely bad.
Carrie
No.
Muse
There's a point to which it's mutual and encouraged. Yeah, so we definitely do want to talk about that.
Carrie
Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.
Muse
Yeah, so we definitely do want to talk about that.
Carrie
And I think it's good to step outside of it sometimes and look at it with that lens of sort of analyzing it for what it is and not the nitty gritty of who it is, but more the actual phenomenon itself and what we are part of and what it means and what we take it to mean in our own lives and stuff. It's sort of, yeah, to talk about that sort of thing, I think is a missing piece in what is out there.
Muse
And I think you and I stanning different groups as we do makes that a little bit easier because once it's two of us... I mean, two points does not a data chart make, but it lets us step outside of it a little bit more because we start to see those patterns.
Carrie
Exactly, exactly. There's things that I've said to you that I had no idea that you literally have the same thing. Like, you know, we refer to them in their eras, you know, a particular hairstyle era, and you guys do the same thing. And it's just stuff like that. I think, wow, that's really funny. And how you would have, we would have our favorites, but you had your bias. And now I find the bias concept is infiltrating into the One Direction world as is bias wrecker and all of those vocabulary that would mean nothing to anybody else.
Muse
Which I love. And all of this is different too than when it was New Kids on the Block, which I think is there's some interesting evolution that's happened since, you know, we were in our teens.
Carrie
Yes.
Muse
I would also... Like, I think fans of various boy bands will find something to listen to here, but I would also really like for people who... have someone in their life who is super into a group, any group, to come to this and say, like, “This is what I'm talking about.” And to...listening, understand a little better what we mean when we say we're excited about these guys and that they've saved us, that they've helped us in our lives, that they helped us form a community.
Carrie
Yes, yes, community for sure. Even the people I work with are mainly women and they all know I'm a fan. Only a few of them know the depth of the fan and they'll come to me with questions if they see something online and they want a clarification because they know I will know. So becoming that person has been interesting too.
Muse
You have known me for long enough that you know I have absolutely no chill. So the people around me kind of know. It is kind of obvious. Like I don't talk about them incessantly. I do have a sense of what's appropriate to the situation. But if you want to know what's important in my life and you've had that conversation with me, you know that BTS is a part of it.
I surprised my daughter the other night as well. She mentioned some K-pop idol and I was like, “Oh, one of the BTS guys did a collab with her” and she was like, “Do you know everything about them?” And I'm like, “No, actually.”
But who they collabed with on a recent album? Yes, I can tell you that because I've listened to the songs and I know who's on them.
Carrie
I know. it creeps up on you, hey? Like, you don't recognize when it's happening and all of a sudden you're able to look at a picture with somebody and describe exactly what was happening, who's behind the scenes that you can't see, what the event was, who was the stylist, and all of sudden you think, “Oh my God, when did I become this person?”
Muse
I know every once in a while there'll be a YouTube short that'll come up that's just zoomed in on like two of the members dancing or something. And I'll be like, yeah, “Oh that was from such-and-such a dance practice. I've seen that video.” And then I'm like, “Whoa, hold up, wait. Why do I know that offhand?”
Carrie
Right, exactly. Why is it so just easily brought to the surface like you're talking about how it's sunny outside?
Muse
And like, didn't set out to memorize that. I've just seen that video.
Carrie
No, I just wanted to know their names.
Muse
“I just wanted to learn their names”?
Carrie
Yes.
Muse
Do... do you guys say that as well?
Carrie
Yes.
Muse
Oh my God. I literally have a pin for my backpack that says “I just wanted to learn their names” and it's on a tombstone.
Carrie
That would be applicable.
Muse
Because nobody told me! You learn their names, you fall in love. That's how it works!
Carrie
Yeah, now I can tell you their blood type and the time of day they were born, but that's fine. That's not weird, right?
Muse
No, that's perfectly normal.
Carrie
I think so.
Muse
I mean, because like, if they were bleeding out and they had a rare blood type and you also had the same rare blood type, then you can donate blood and you need to know that!
Carrie
I would jump right in there!
Carrie
The other, mean, obviously we can touch on it later, but the sense of community that happened with losing Liam from our fandom was unlike anything I've ever known before. The people in my own life who knew that I was a fan and almost gave me their condolence for losing a family member.
Muse
Mm-hmm.
Carrie
You in particular who sent me a beautiful candy basket. It was just the sweetest thing ever. And just going through that with people who understand, I just, I would cry. I would sit at my table and we would cry together talking to the group chat people. And if you're sort of an isolated person in a vacuum and you really liked these people and then you lose one... And you're dealing with that alone, you feel like you're crazy. You know, “I don't know him. Why am I so sad?”
But being able to articulate that with other people and have people understand because they themselves are in a fandom and they know what that feels like and what it would feel like for them. That was really nice in such a horrible time.
Muse
Yeah, and I think it's a source of strength for people because, I mean, God knows, the people in my life have been very supportive. But I know that's not the case for everyone. And some of my very good ARMY friends are mocked by their families for even expressing that they like BTS and how much they like them.
Carrie
How awful would that be? Just your source of joy. Like, who is it hurting?
Muse
Right?
Carrie
And there's people that something will happen and... for example, Taylor Swift getting engaged and so many people on social media, “I have no one to talk to about this!” And so they're finding each other just to be excited together for this person that none of us know.
Muse
Yeah. Exactly.
So that's who we want to listen That was the last question I had on my list. So that's the podcast. That's who we are. This is what we do.
Carrie
Wow, that was really nice. We're really nice.
Muse
We're great.
Carrie
Aren't we fantastic?
Muse
Amazing. We've been amazing for the last 30 years.
Carrie
Now everyone gets to know.
Muse
And on that note, should move on to our next feature.
Carrie
The Boy of the Week.
(Musical tone plays)
Muse
The Boy of the Week.
(Musical tone plays again)
Muse
So we should probably explain.
Carrie
Yeah
Muse
Because we're going to have people who listening who like BTS, we're going to have people listening who are One Direction fans. We thought we would introduce the guys to you. And we thought that the best way to do that would be to do one an episode And so we came up with Boy of the Week. The show is not weekly.
Carrie
We will celebrate this boy for one week and then forget about them for the rest of the time between.
Muse
I will not forget about them, I will hold them in my heart the whole time.
Carrie
Fair.
Muse
But, so, thus was born Boy of the Week. So because I have more boys...
Muse
Unfortunately for me, Seven is a lot?
Carrie
It IS a lot.
Muse
I am starting and I thought I would start in Fan Chant Order.
Carrie
What is Fan Chant Order?
Muse
In K-pop, at certain places in songs, you will chant the names of the band members. You will start with the leader of the group, followed by in age order every other member of the group. So, going from oldest to youngest.
So for BTS, is: Kim Namjoon, Kim Seokjin, Min Yoongi, Jung Hoseok, Park Jimin, Kim Taehyung, Jeon Jungkook, BTS.
It is incredibly powerful to chant that in an arena full of people
Carrie
It would be.
Muse
But more to the point that lets me have an order for the guys that doesn't feel like I'm making anyone a favorite or least favorite. Because I do have to put them in an order.
Carrie
Yeah, we don't have that. We all do it our own way. And I find personally for me, if I'm writing out the names of the five or talking about them, I, on purpose, will swap around who's first and last so that nobody feels left out. Because that's completely a reasonable thing to do.
Muse
Because they'll know. Somehow.
Carrie
They will. And they'll be sad! I don't want anyone to be sad.
Muse
So that to say, this means we start with the group leader. Who is Kim Namjoon or RM.
Carrie
What makes him a leader exactly? We don't have a leader in One Direction world. I mean, there's some that would say their bias is the leader, but that's not the case.
Muse
So K-pop groups are formed a little bit more like hockey teams are formed. There are companies, they have a bunch of trainees, you will be picked from the trainees to form a new group when the company is forming a new group. Among those boys who are picked, (we're talking about boy bands, there are girl groups as well) someone will be named as the leader. The leader is the advocate for the group. And they are also kind of responsible for the group's well-being.
Carrie
That’s a lot of pressure.
Muse
It is a lot of pressure. And I think Namjoon has really felt it at times. Because you're also you're you're putting that on a teenage boy, or a boy who's in his early 20s generally, to be the representative for all of them. The other thing about Namjoon is he is the member of the group that speaks the most English and he was fluent in English or fluent enough to do interviews when they started coming to North America.
And he took on the role of being the translator for the group a lot of the time. So he would translate questions to them, he would translate back their answers, he was the one who was on the air answering questions in English, in real time.
I speak French. I took French in high school. I took French in university. We've spoken about that. I have lived in Montreal for more than two decades. I will still not do live interviews in French. So I cannot imagine at the age of 20 being put on a radio show live and just expected to speak in my second language.
Carrie
Especially at... the timing, same as your rise and stardom is astronomical. And all of a sudden everyone knows your name and everyone looks at you. That's so much pressure.
Muse
Yeah, and he has felt it at times. BTS recently went on hiatus. Well, recently, this would have been in 2022, They all had to fulfill mandatory military service in Korea. And now they're back, but Namjoon at the time stepped away. And I think he more than anyone else really felt the pressure of being the leader of the group for that long. And at that point, 2022, it had been like nine years that he'd been doing that. And they really leaned on him. And I think that's incredible.
And he's, he has the soul of a poet. He's a brilliant lyricist. He can do wordplay in English and Korean and combine the two and does in his songs.
Carrie
That's insane.
Muse
It is crazy. Every once in a while he ends with something and I'm like, you're not allowed, you are not allowed to write something that good in your second language. I'm a writer, sir. And you are making me angry. That is not fair.
Carrie
You're too good. It's making me visibly angry.
Muse
You are showing me up out here and I don't like it. I say with love. I say with love, but he has a song called “Lonely”. And one of the lines in lonely is: “I guess I'm wasted time f***ing ticks and I hasten.”
And the song was written, I guess, while he was looking at the Vegas strip, which it absolutely feels like a song you write while you're looking at the Vegas strip, because it's all about time moving too slowly and too fast at the same time. And hating where you are and not knowing where you belong.
Carrie
I think I'm in awe of him the more I hear about him from you.
Muse
And he also seems like such a big sweetheart. Also a clumsy dude. He's super, super smart. And then the guys talk about like, they'll hear him talk and they're like, “wow, he's so smart.” And they obviously just have so much respect for him as a musician. And then, you know, they're like, “But how many times would he have left his cell phone behind if we didn't find it for him?”
Carrie
You can't be all over brilliant and have everything together.
Muse
Well, that's exactly it, right? He doesn't have everything together. We also call him the God of Destruction. Because he doesn't know his own strength.
Carrie
That sounds ominous.
Muse
He trips, falls, knocks things over. They will be, you know, on their little lives putting things together and he will break everything he touches. He's disaster in the kitchen. They don't let him cook.
Carrie
You know, there's some similarities there with mine too.
Muse
Yeah, I'm interested in drawing those parallels as we move forward. I'm trying to think of like things that I haven't said about him.
He's a rap superstar and was recruited into the group as a rapper. So he's not a dancer, not really a vocalist, although he does have a beautiful voice and I think he's less confident in it.
Carrie
Would he rap in English and Korean?
Muse
He has.
Carrie
I can barely speak English enough to rap it, let alone another language.
Muse
Well, and one of the other guys in the group, Min Yoongi, who we'll talk about later, is a rapper and he raps in Korean because he's like, he doesn't really want to rap in English because he's not as good in English.
But yes, he does rap in English. He recently did a collab with Megan Thee Stallion.
Carrie
Wow, really?
Muse
Yeah, you haven't heard that one? I will send it to you. It’s called ‘Neva Play’, which is amazing.
Carrie
I’m putting that in my note.
Muse
We’ll put it in the show. we will link the songs that we talk about in the show notes. ‘Lonely’ will be there.
I think all of the guys really look up to him, not just because he was their leader, but because he's a super talented musician and producer and he offers them advice. And you can see in interviews and stuff when they've done their solo stuff that they'll talk to him, they'll show him things first. They'll ask for his feedback.
There's a bit in one of the variety shows that they did called ‘Are You Sure?’ which you watched part of it with me.
Carrie
Yes.
Muse
Where one of the other members, V, calls him and is like, “That new solo song that you did, can you just send it to me? Because I want to listen to it.” And so Namjoon does and they listen to it and they listen to it in the car as they're driving and V's like, “This is so incredible. This is so him. I want to make a song like this, but for me. But the way that this represents him, I want a song that represents me.”
Carrie
It's so introspective.
Muse
Yeah, and I think it's amazing how much they all respect each other's craft like that.
So that's Kim Namjoon.
Carrie
That is our Boy of the Week.
Muse
That is our boy of the week. Our leader, our rap superstar, our absolutely brilliant poet lyricist, our big clumsy goofball.
Muse
So. That's it. That is our first episode of BFFs and Boy Bands.
Carrie
I think it was a good introduction to who we are, how we got here. A little walk down memory lane, a little nostalgia. We have it all.
Muse
I really hope people like what they're hearing. We have so much more to talk about. Our next episode, we're going to talk a little bit more about the groups and who they are because we kind of lightly brushed past that on our way to talk about other things in the podcast. So if you like what you're hearing, please check back in next month.
Carrie
Well, we've come to the end.
Muse
Thank you all for joining us. If you want to hear more, we will be back next month. If you would like to get in touch with us in the meantime, if you have questions and comments, we would love to hear them.
Carrie
Our email is bffsandboybands@gmail.com and we're also on Bluesky at @bffsandboybands.bsky.social.
This has been a lot of fun and I've enjoyed this chat and I look forward to more with you.
Muse
I also have enjoyed our chat and look forward to speaking more with you as well.
Carrie
Wonderful. Well, until next time, this has been BFFs.
Muse
And Boy Bands.