This episode -- we talk about the boys themselves and why we love them. Who are they, exactly? We talk about how the groups were formed, why we think they caught on, breaking up and staying together. How do we feel about them, and can we really call this love? We can and we do! Let us tell you about it. This episode's Boy of the Week: Niall Horan!
Welcome back to BFFs and Boybands, where we talk about “Friendship, Fandom, and the Boybands we love”! Carrie loves One Direction and Muse loves BTS and we talk about the things our fandoms share, how they’re different, and why we’re so invested.
On this episode: We talk about who the boys are, where they’re from, and what we mean when we say we love them.
00:46 So... what did Carrie think of Neva Play from last episode?
02:58 We didn’t talk about the boys last time, so let’s do that now.
03:19 Why we call them ‘the boys’, even though they’re adults – is it infantalizing?
05:32 Carrie introduces One Direction and their origin story
07:59 Carrie introduces the members of One Direction (Harry Styles is in One Direction???)
10:00 Muse talks about how Kpop Idol Groups are formed, and BTS came together
12:23 One Direction and the X-Factor house, and how that led to One Direction developing a fanbase
13:10 How BTS made connections with their fans through online lives
14:30 The BTS members, and why there are 600 names for them, and only 7 guys
19:45 The One Direction Hiatus and their solo work
22:32 BTS and their almost-breakup
25:55 Do we love them? And what does that really mean?
28:45 “I think they love us too”
30:58 Is it their personalities, or their music that we love?
34:03 If you could recommend one song... what would it be?
37:26 The Boy of the Week – Mom’s favourite, Niall Horan!
43:00 Closing notes, next show and contact info
Additional notes, memes and music:
BTS Cheat sheet
Many thanks to the wonderful and talented Daily BTS on Bluesky for the help on this. (Give them a follow, @dailybts.bsky.social!)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ec2-XnBlKRT2y4hX2hZLhPyXq3h887-J/view?usp=drive_link
Yoongi’s rant about having to learn choreography:
https://youtu.be/6bsrCL53iNM?si=SEQx4Mza-YlDNqHl
BTS performs Mikrokosmos on Jimmy Fallon:
https://youtu.be/q9kSnTuGEzk?si=0B1iICobPKaKJNT5
Songs we mention:
“Seesaw” by BTS
“Fool’s Gold” by One Direction
“No Control” by One Direction (Carrie chose this as her favourite from “Four”!)
“Where Do Broken Hearts Go”, One Direction
“Mikrokosmos” by BTS
“Nice to meet ya” by Niall Horan
Listen to our Season 1 Playlist
...on Youtube Music here: https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9WhMVmTww0BsmXJAZH0FSuXYaeTR1_O9&si=FqHJfIjK4g1tFH2Y
...on Tidal here: https://tidal.com/playlist/bb1a4982-6b7c-48ca-bec0-a09f41851765
...on Apple Music here: https://music.apple.com/ca/playlist/bffs-and-boybands-season-1/pl.u-PDb44KBTkP6LoK
Our Contact Information:
E-mail: bffsandboybands@gmail.com
Bluesky: @bffsandboybands.bsky.social
Show Credits
BFFs and Boybands is brought to you by your hosts: Carrie and Muse
BFFs and Boybands Logo and branding is by Megan Berry and Jeff Leblanc
Our Theme song is “Light Summer Pop” by SingleFX via Audio Jungle
https://audiojungle.net/item/light-summer-pop/57537454
The “Boy of the Week” logo chime is from Universfield, via Pixabay
Special thanks to every single one of you who has listened, offered feedback and support, and generally been kind and generous with your time and your love.
And very special thanks to BTS and One Direction for making our lives better by sharing themselves and their music.
Muse
Welcome to BFFs and Boy Bands, the show where we talk about
Carrie
Our friendship.
Muse
Fandom.
Carrie
and the boy bands we love. I'm Carrie, I'm One Direction Bestie.
Muse
And I'm Muse. I'm BTS Army Bestie.
Carrie
This episode on BFFs and boy bands.
Muse
The boys.
Muse
Welcome back, everyone. I hope you enjoyed our first episode. We are back again with more talk about boy bands. And I just wanted to ask Carrie, because I've been listening to the show and I'm following up andI'm making our song list. And I want to know if you actually listen to Never Play, the R.M./Megan Thee Stallion collab.
Carrie
I did. I watched the video.
Muse
Okay. And what did you think?
Carrie
I get wrapped up in Megan Thee Stallion's just her aura because she's so intense. And then I forgot he was part of it until his voice kicked in and it was so deep and I went, “Oh!” And then he was animated and so I was briefly confused. But then I was vibing with it and I was like, yes. And the toothpick in the mouth...
Right now in my One Direction group chat, there's been a lot of talk about the toothpick in the mouth of various ones of ours and how it's really sexy. And for some reason I was like, they do it too. And then I completely just went from there.
Muse
Okay, so a couple of things because I--I love that video. He was in the military service when that was released So there's... he's not in it. That's why he's animated, I think?
Carrie
Oh, okay, that makes sense then, because I was like, all right, well, whatever. And then I kept going.
Muse
Also, ARMY had a time with that when it came out because he doesn't drive. And he's driving a car in the video. Everyone's like, if anyone's driving the getaway car, it is not Namjoon.
Carrie
Listen animated him can do whatever he wants!
Muse
So-- but we all had the same reaction to the deep voice. I think when the song came out, everyone was just like, he sneaks up behind me every time this song comes on. And he's like, “What's up, Stallion?” and you're like, “WHAT?-AAA!”
Carrie
Well, yeah, because it goes for a really long time before he kicks in. So I was like doing my thing and listening and la la la and bobbing along. And then I was starting to wonder, I was like, is he going to come on? Like, when does he show up? Double check that he was part of it. And then all of a I was like, oh, oh, there it is.
Muse
That was the part I wanted you to hear. I wanted to see if you had the same reaction as I did.
Carrie
Yeah, it's like jump scare, but expected jump scare? So I don't know how that worked, but it did.
Muse
So this episode, I noticed that last time when we talked about, you know, who we are and how we got here, we kind of took it for granted that people knew who we were talking about with the bands. And so I thought we could spend some time talking about our guys, the boy bands and who they are and where they came from and what they're all about.
Carrie
Yeah, for sure.
Muse
But I do want to start with a note that we call them boy bands. And we do call them ‘the boys’. And I think some people find that really controversial almost. Do you guys have this discussion in your fandom?
Carrie
Not I've seen, no. You know, we all use it as a term of endearment and kind of like it's one of those things classified as a family matter, ‘our boys’.
Muse
Because I've seen some people discuss like, wish we didn't call them ‘boys’ or ‘boy bands’ because like, yes, when they started out, they were teenagers, but they are adult men now, most of them are in their 30s. And like, they have their lives, you don't need to coddle them, they don't need to be protected at all costs.
Carrie
Yes, exactly. There is a lot of that. I find it's almost like an infantilizing kind of an attitude. And what I especially find funny is when Louis will answer fan questions on a YouTube video or something that he's on. And it's a lot of like, have you drank water today? Did you eat breakfast? And he's like, guys, I'm OK. What's the problem here?
So I think it's just how we show our love, but yeah, some people in the fandom are like, okay, really, he's 30.
Muse
That's funny because on the BTS side when they come on lives and stuff, they will ask like, okay, you know, did you eat today? Which is, it's actually a very Korean thing. It's like a greeting to ask someone if they ate.
So they do, they kind of take care of us in that way. Like “Remember to eat, remember to take care of your health.” Jungkook was on live recently and said, “Okay, don't skip your workout, go for your run today.”
So I don't know, maybe they baby us a little bit.
Carrie
I think so. That is nice.
Muse
Yeah, but anyway, we, I think the term boys is kind of affectionate. It is not really meant to be infantilizing, I think kind of ‘boy bands‘ is the term for this kind of constructed band. And so that's why we use it.
Carrie
Yes. Yeah, exactly. It's, it's, we don't say the guys, we say the boys. It's just our way of knowing who we're meaning.
Muse
We call them the guys too. We have lots of names for them.
Carrie
Yes, you guys have lots of names for each other.
Muse
We're going to get into that a little bit later on because first I want to hear from you. Why don't you introduce me to One Direction?
Carrie
Well, picture it, 2010, England, The X Factor UK is underway. Five solo, hopefully solo artists audition. They make it through to the boot camp. They are dismissed from the boot camp, but then they are promptly put into a band to try and approach it that way.
So then they get some time to get to know each other and come back to perform as a band. They make it to the finals. They are indeed not the winners, nor are they second place. They are third place. But then from there, because of just who they are and how sweet they are and how everybody fell right in love with them, through the power of fans and social media, they just skyrocketed and began this domination of the world.
Muse
So they were pulled out before the show even started. Like, and they said like, ‘you guys are all not enough individually, but we'll put you all in a group together and then you'll go through this show’.
Carrie
Well, the show was underway. They were, you know how in these reality shows they do the first auditions and then they decide who they're keeping and then they'll send some to the boot camp or whatever. So they made it that far as individuals and were part of the big group. And then as they whittled down the boot camp group, they were part of the whittling, each of them. But then they asked them to come back.
And I think it was Niall who later said that at that time, he thought they were bringing him back for some sort of like exit interview on camera. And he was like, I don't want to do that. I'm too sad. And in the end, it was... They were just putting them together in a band to try that angle. And it was Nicole Scherzinger from Pussycat Dolls who worked with Simon and sort of handpicked the boys and her line was, “The little girls are going to love them”
And in fact, the little girls did love them.
Muse
That almost sounds a little condescending, I'm going to say.
Carrie
I think it was, they were young, they were like 16, 17, 18. So I think that's who she meant by the little-- like teenage girls because they're teenage boys. I don't think any of them foresaw the impact that they were going to have as... on all people. I think they literally were just going for that demographic, knowing that it's a powerful demographic when you're trying to market, but it just exceeded all expectations.
Muse
Mmm. So who are the members of One Direction?
Carrie
So we have Harry Styles, of course.
Muse
Harry Styles is in One Direction?
Carrie
I know, right? It's crazy. Oh, you've heard of him?
Muse
Okay, so I did not know when you sent me the picture of Harry and Louis initially, I did not know that Harry Styles had been in One Direction. I knew he was a musician. But I had no idea that he had been in One Direction. So there are people who don't know Harry Styles was in One Direction. That is legit thing. I am one of them.
Carrie
And they're starting to show up a bit like on a TikTok comment or something. And I can never tell if they're being sarcastic or not, because they'll say like, “What Harry Styles is in One Direction?” and everyone's clutching their pearls. And I'm like, are you just trying to rage bait or do you really not know that? I guess maybe they don't know that.
Muse
Yeah, I think genuinely if you weren't paying attention, you would not know.
Muse
So there you go. Okay, so Harry Styles.
Carrie
There is, Louis Tomlinson, who is from Doncaster. Harry's from a little village outside Manchester, Holmes Chapel, but Louis is from Doncaster. And then there's Liam Payne, who was Wolverhampton, and Zayn Malik, who was from Bradford. And then there was Mr. Niall Horan from Mullingar, Ireland.
Muse
Did any of them know one another before they got together?
Carrie
Nope. There's a little bit of a like a like a rumbling that maybe Harry and Louis were at the same concert at some point, a while before they ever were on the show. But I don't know that anybody's actually proven that or made a big deal of it. Or if they even like crossed paths, they just happened to be in the same building at same time. But no, none of them knew each other. And then when they got put in this group, they went and spent a couple of weeks at Harry's father's bungalow, I think.
Where they were just kind of immersed together to get to know each other. And they just really hit it off and became besties.
Muse
It's different in K-pop because in K-pop there is an industry around forming what they call idol groups. And the term is idol. They will refer to themselves as idols, which I think is super interesting. So the BTS guys were all recruited to a very small company, or at that time it was a small company called Big Hit that was looking to debut a new idol group, which they had never done before.
Carrie
Yes.
Muse
The way that you form an idol group is you get a whole bunch of trainees and it's kind of like an X factor thing. Now this wasn't a reality TV show. There are K-pop reality TV shows, but they were not formed from that. They were just in this trainee program and they were seeing who would work best in the group and who would work best together and trying to form a group. They were initially going to be...
RM Namjoon, who we've talked about, the leader, was initially recruited along with Min Yoongi to be... They were going to go with more of a like a rap vibe. And so they were told that they would never need to learn to dance, which all of the K-pop idol groups do. And I think Yoongi is bitter about that to this day because they do an awful lot of dancing.
Carrie
“I was told there would be no dancing!”
Muse
He has literally said that on camera. There is a video of them airing their grievances at a company meeting. And that's one of the things where he was like, “You said that I would never have to learn to dance. We were going to be a crew!” And that didn't happen.
So Big Hit put together a group of seven boys and they on June 13th of 2013 debuted for the first time on a music show. For a few years they had, they really had some ups and downs and they didn't, they weren't immediately popular. They were just kind of another idol group. There were people who talked about them not amounting to anything, which is insane to think of now.
Carrie
Hehehe.
Muse
Because they were from a small company, they were often cut out of the music shows and award shows and performances and variety shows that idol groups get their popularity on. And that's how they build their base. So they are a bit of a rags to riches story where they were so successful because they caught on and they became big. But there were a couple of years there where it was touch and go for them.
So they are seven boys from all over Korea who did meet in the Idol Trainee Program.
Carrie
The X Factor had... they had all of the contestants who were moving into the finals and whatnot... I think it was like top 10, maybe? I don't know... in one house for a while, called the X Factor house. So you had the members of One Direction and there was a solo singer named Mary and there was, I think it was Little Mix was in there with them, the girl band. They were put together as a band as well for the show.
So they kind of... Trial by Fire just kind of all lived together like a giant party that was filmed. So they, I think that's where they started their fan base was just people seeing them and how goofy and fun and just lovely humans that they are. Because it wasn't even the singing at first, because they didn't have any, they didn't come out the first single until like 2011, but they stayed so popular and relevant that it was their personalities that people fell in love with first.
Muse
That was a big part of it for BTS too, was that previous to that, a lot of idol groups, like you would see them on variety shows, but there was this real divide between an idol and their real life. And because BTS became popular at the time that, you know, online lives became a thing and you could just go on and talk to your fans and you could have a blog, (they had a blog) and you could post like sound samples that you were working on or, you know, just talk directly to people and talk about what your life was like. They started breaking down a lot of that. And so people were like,” Oh, I like these guys. They're just, they're just teenagers.” Yeah. Yeah. Their dorm was not filmed, but we know, we definitely know some stories from the dorm and I think they were like as trainees, were like 10 to a room.
Carrie
wow.
Muse
Yeah, they were like three bunk beds of three and then somebody on the floor. And then when they became a group and they were all in together, they all had one room, the seven of them together. Part of that was Big Hit didn't have any money, so they didn't have the money to have, they're not gonna be two or four to a room because they just don't have the space for that. But it was also, it's trial by fire.
How well do you guys get along?
Carrie
Yep. Thrown together in this new environment. Yeah.
So in BTS, if I wrote down all the names you say, there's like 600 members. So I need you to tell me who's in the band and how many names they have and what they might be.
Muse
Okay, so there's seven members of BTS, which is, it turns out, a lot of people. In the first episode, I did the whole fan chant order, but they all have several names because they their names, their stage names. And they also have the names that the fans call them. And we call them six million different things.
Carrie
Yes, I've noticed.
Muse
Nobody knows who I'm talking about.
Carrie
I nod and smile a lot.
Muse
But I will say I have a solution to this problem. So for you and for those people who are listening who don't know anything about BTS, I have collaborated with the folks at the Daily BTS account, my good friend Justine on Blue Sky. And she has put together a cheat sheet for us that explains who the members are and all of the names that we call them that we could think of.
Carrie
That is a useful document.
Muse
So we will have that in the show notes and you can use it and you can read along and figure out who these guys are.
Carrie
Yes, I dare say we need that.
Muse
But you know, if you listen to a few episodes, I'm sure like you'll just get super into BTS and then you won't need the cheat sheet anymore because you'll just know.
Carrie
I mean, obviously.
Muse
So we'll go in fanchant order again because that's the easiest thing for me to do. Kim Namjoon is the leader. He is from Ilsan, which is just outside of Seoul. He goes by RM now, which is actually short for Rap Monster, which was the stage name that he started under.
Muse
They were kids. I think it seemed like a good idea at the time and I think it's adorable. You'll also hear him called Rapmon, which is short for Rap Monster.
Carrie
Of course it is.
Muse
We tend to call them by their first names and not their stage names in the fandom or nicknames that we have for them. They don't seem to mind that. Like, I can't imagine...
I don't even know what Chappell Roan's, like, not-stage-name is. But I would never dream of calling her that either, like, as a fan. But with the BTS guys, it just feels like, I should be calling them by their first names. It's almost like... it feels weird after a while to call them by their stage names, even if you start off that way.
Carrie
Right.
Muse
So the second person is Jin, Kim Seokjin. He just goes by Jin as his stage name. He is the oldest. He was recruited stepping off a bus. He was in acting and he was gorgeous. And so they were like, you should come to this company and be an idol. And so he did. And he became
Because he is the oldest and in Korean culture, they place a lot of value on that. He kind of came into the dorm and as the oldest, he's kind of in charge and he's the one that everyone looks to. So if you imagine that you're 20 years old and they put you in this dorm and they're like, we're gonna recruit you to be an idol. By the way, this is your new family and you're a little bit in charge here. And he's like, whoa. And then he walks into the dorm and finds that people... these guys are surviving on chicken breast smoothies.
Carrie
Oh god.
Muse
Right? and so he's like you know I'm gonna do some cooking. But he becomes kind of the glue that holds it all together
Carrie
Gotcha.
Muse
Then we have Min Yoongi who is also goes by SUGA not sugar, but Suga, which is short for shooting guard. He played basketball before he was an idol.
Carrie
Okay.
Muse
And he is one of the ones who was recruited as a rap star and he didn't want to learn to dance. But went on to, he did learn, he's very good. He also in his solo work goes by another name, which is Agust D.
Carrie
Right.
Muse
It's very fun to be an ARMY and have someone tell you that like if you were really serious about these, about, you know, Korean music, you wouldn't be into these BTS guys. You'd be into like Korean hip hop, like Agust D.
Carrie
Joke's on you.
Muse
I have some good news and some bad news, friend.
Then we have J-Hope, whose real name is Jung Hoseok. I don't know that he goes by Hoseok all that much, nor do we call him J-Hope. We call him Hobi. The name J-Hope is because he wants to hope to everyone who hears his music. To boil it down. And then after that we have the three youngest Park Jimin, who goes by Jimin, who is a vocalist. Kim Taehyung, who goes by V. Just the letter.
I don't think anyone knows exactly what V stands for. Is V for vocalist? Is V for visual, in that he's very handsome? We don't know. And then we have Jeon Jungkook, who just goes by Jungkook. And he has a whole bunch of nicknames. I won't list them all here. I'll let people look at the beautiful spread that we will have in the show notes. And when we get to them all in Boy of the Week, we'll talk a little bit more about their names.
Muse
So those are the guys. start with this very small company, Big Hit. They go on to become this global phenomenon. They catch on in Korea, then they catch on in North America. They do some American music shows, and now they are just internationally well-known. They have millions of fans all over the planet.
Carrie
Yeah.
Muse
So One Direction....
Carrie
Yes.
Muse
They're not still together though. Do we want to talk about their their status as a group?
Carrie
Right. In 2015, Zayn actually left the band and they came out with one more album after Zayn left, but they never toured that album. actually went on a hiatus before they toured it. They said, they told us it was an 18 month hiatus. That turned out to not be the case because we're still waiting. And that was 10 years ago.
They've never actually come out and made like a “One Direction is Done announcement”. But the fact that they've all got like solo albums and whatnot, we put it together eventually. That, you know... we've always been hoping for a reunion. But when we lost Liam, were we kind of that went out the window because if nothing else, they had all said individually when asked that question, if they would have a reunion, they were like, “yeah, if everybody wanted to do it together” and I can't see them doing it without him. Perhaps in some sort of like a tribute situation the four would come together. But I don't think they would ever just come together and say, ‘we're back’ and make an album and all that kind of stuff, because it wouldn't be the same.
Muse
Yeah, we say in ARMY that seven equals one.
Carrie
Yeah, exactly. And especially because from the outside looking in, Liam was always the one that was the most eager to reunite. So some people think maybe they would, in his honor, sort of do one grouping because he always did want that. But then others think they would never because he can't be there.
Muse
Mmm.
Carrie
So I guess that remains to be seen. And they're all doing individual projects and Most of them have multiple... they all have multiple albums. They're all just working on individual projects and are very successful in their own right. And they're all doing kind of different music from each other. So I think it would be really interesting if they came together and did something, but I can definitely see why they wouldn't.
Muse
How long were they together before they went on hiatus and before Zayn left?
Carrie
They were together five years. So...
Muse
That's substantial amount of time.
Carrie
It is, but they've been apart twice as that.
Muse
Wow.
Carrie
So the fact that they made such an impression in five years that they're still gaining fans. There's, there's people who weren't even toddlers when they were going, who are their fans. And I'm not saying they're like a Harry fan, a Louis fan, like they're a One Direction fan.
Muse
Mmm.
Carrie
So they have some sort of magic to them that just persists and keeps people... When you listen to them and you watch them in videos and interviews and that sort of thing, it could be today. It doesn't... It's just this weird, timeless feeling.
Muse
Hmm. Interestingly, the BTS guys almost broke up about five years in.
Carrie
Really?
Muse
And the fans didn't know about it at the time. Idol groups are for seven years, you sign on for a seven year contract generally for your first contract. But after five years, the company was like: Listen, we want to book you guys on a world stadium tour. Those book out two years in advance.
So you're at five years, we don't want to be renegotiating your contract at the same time we're booking all these stadium tours. Cause if you guys back out then it's a lot of money, right? And we have to pay for all those stadiums. So we want to renegotiate your contract now. And at the time they were on a world tour and they were exhausted. They were traveling to countries, you know, all around the world.
They were tired. They're in not their own time zone. They're going hotel room to hotel room. Probably getting on each other's nerves because I know if I had to be with the same seven people all the time and I was exhausted, I'd be kind of annoyed with probably all of them. And so they really...
They have a lot of songs from that time that talk about basically how I love you guys and all, but we kind of can't stop hurting one another. And Yoongi has a song called Seesaw. And the song is about: this relationship is a seesaw and we're both on the seesaw for a while it was fun, but this is over now. And one of us has to get off. But as soon as one of us gets off the seesaw, the game is over.
Carrie
Oh wow, yeah.
Muse
and nobody got off the seesaw basically.
Carrie
There's still see-sawin’
Muse
And they decided that they would stay. And ARMY found out about this when they went on an awards show and they won, the next year they won an award. And when Jin went up to say his thanks, he basically said,’thank you to all of the members who stayed together because we were thinking about breaking up.’ And they started crying on stage. Yeah.
Carrie
Oh good God.
Muse
And the interesting thing that I've heard about this is of course this is all in Korean, which a lot of people don't speak. And if like a lot of North American fans don't speak. And so they don't know why they're crying. And so maybe someone has a few words of Korean that says they said something about breaking up and then everybody started crying and I don't know what's happening.
So that was a time in the fandom until the translations got around. It's like, no, not now, but previously they had thought about breaking up and they decided to stay together.
Carrie
Imagine the chaos.
Muse
Yeah, yeah. So they did. They too went through that rough patch like at at five years and they decided to stay together. And then nine years in, they decided to go on hiatus and go off and pursue their own personal projects. And then they knew that at the time they would have to go into their mandatory military service, which is now done. And now they are back together and they have said they are making an album, which which will come out in the spring and then we'll do a tour in the spring.
Carrie
Excellent.
Muse
So that's the guys, that is a long explanation of who these guys are and where they came from.
Muse
But this is about the boy bands and why we love them. So, Carrie, I have a question for you that seems very simple.
Carrie
Okay.
Muse
Do you love them?
Carrie
So I have this conversation a lot with people in my chat group and whatnot that it's very easy, especially in the age of social media. One Direction in particular, when they first started way back when we're super active on Twitter, would respond to fan tweets and just share, you know, I'm eating breakfast, like just random things about their day. So we got very familiar with them in a very familiar way.
But at the end of the day, we don't know them. We know who they are in the public eye. But we have no idea what they're up to behind closed doors, and we never will, nor should we. They don't owe us that. But the people I see and have seen for 15 years, I don't know that you could fake that. And the fact that when anybody speaks of any of them, they talk about how easy they are to work with, how professional they are, how kind they are, how they go out of their way to speak to people on their tours, you know, the behind the scenes people that they're grateful.
And if you've got that level of success and it's been that long to still have that as a reputation, I think sort of speaks to their characters and that they're pretty stand up people. And I know my mom's fallen in love with Niall because she watches The Voice and
Muse
Aww
Carrie
She keeps saying how sweet he's so sweet. I'm like, he is. It's like, know. And she's like telling me my friend is sweet. And but that's jus how he comes across to us too. Like he's just so easy and lovely. So that's what I love. I know I don't love them as people because I don't know them as people, but from what I see of them that they share with us, I think they're lovely.
Muse
It's the same for us, I think. When I first started falling into this rabbit hole, I have a group chat that I'm in where we talk about BTS kind of incessantly. And when I was first getting into it, I was just like, “I don't know what's happening to me. I don't know what to do with all this joy and all of these feelings that I have about these guys who I do not know.”
Carrie
Yep.
Muse
And one of the people in the chat said, “it's okay. You love them.”
And I was like, “oh, well, that's a very strong word.”
Carrie
We're just friends.
Muse
No, I mean, I like them a lot. Okay, we'll be honest. And then I thought about it I'm like, “oh, no, I do. That's what this is.” It really is love. And from everything that I've seen, like you say, we can't know. I can't know what goes on in their minds and their hearts. I have never met them.
Carrie
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Muse
If I am ever in a room together with them, it will be with 60,000 other people.
Carrie
Yeah, exactly.
Muse
But I think they love us too.
Carrie
Yeah. I mean, my bias is Louis, so I can't really, I guess anything I say, have to take the grain of salt, but he is the one that consistently has the most reciprocal relationship with fans. He really does seem to value every concert. He says, you know, “I'm here because of you and we did this together and look what we've built.”
It's just...so heartwarming to have that level of gratitude from somebody who doesn't know me and I don't know him, but we have a relationship.
Muse
Yeah, and it is like when we talked last episode about like kind of exploring how these relationships work, I think it is a reciprocal relationship and I don't think it's faked.
Carrie
Yeah, yeah, it's a reciprocal relationship, but not in a traditional, you know, partner way, just a transactional way, know, because it's a profession, it's their job, but with love.
Muse
Mm-mm.
Yeah. And I thought before I got into any of this that they're like, ‘we love our fans. Ha ha. have to say that because like, you pay me.’
Carrie
Yeah.
Muse
But I don't think that's all it is.
Carrie
No.
Muse
Like there's a part to that relationship that is very sincere and there's a sincere amount of love for the fandom as a whole. And I don't think...
I try to be very careful when I'm talking about them, because I call them ‘my boys’, but they're not mine as a person like me, Muse. They're not mine. They're ARMY’s.
Carrie
Yeah.
Muse
And so when they go online and do a live or something, it's for, it's not for me, it's for us. Those are ARMY’s guys.
Carrie
Yes.
Muse
And so I think of it as, I share a part of that when they say, ‘ARMY, I love you’. They do mean that and they mean me as one piece in like however many million people identify themselves as ARMY.
Carrie
Yes, exactly.
Muse
And so I'm a tiny piece of that, which feels really good.
Carrie
Yeah.
Muse
But I don't think they're talking to me personally.
Carrie
No.
Muse
For you, is it about their music or is it about who they are as people and who you see in this weird relationship that we've just discussed?
Carrie
When they first started, I didn't have the X-Factor here in Canada. So I had only seen snippets on entertainment shows and that sort of thing. So when they released their first album in 2011, and it was What Makes You Beautiful, and I was like, this is really touching my fan heart. And I dig it. And I used to play it a lot in the car. And me and my daughter would sing along and the whole thing. I played it at daycare.
But as they grew, sort of as I grew in their world and they were growing in their own worlds, it's part and parcel, I think. Every time they release something, I love it automatically because it's them and I love them as people. But then when I listen to it, I'm like, ‘Yes, I do. I love this music.’
Muse
Yeah, I think for me with BTS, it's a combination too of like, what hooked me initially was hearing some of their music, but what really caught me was seeing them on lives and talking about their songs and the meaning behind their songs and how they record and their process. So it's kind of a combination of like the lyrics and I talked last episode about kind of the honesty of things like songs like Black Swan being about you know, creation and depression. But also this, like, they just seem to be really fun, interesting people who genuinely love the fans that are engaging with their music and their content.
Carrie
Yeah, and I think if it was purely them as people, they could release crappy music and I would still love it and love them. But if they were real jerks, it wouldn't matter how good the song was, I wouldn't like it.
Muse
Yeah. And I can say certainly there are, there are groups out there that I'm like, I like your music, but I don't like who you are as people. And so I don't like your music anymore. Yeah.
Carrie
Yeah, exactly. Right. Yeah.
Muse
No, it's true. And I think that's probably very difficult for them to negotiate too, because like... Man, they're human beings. They're flawed. Everyone's got flaws.
Carrie
Yeah, exactly.
Muse
And so to be the person who has to be like, my career is kind of riding on being likable.
Carrie
Yeah, and I have cameras on me all the time.
Muse
Yes. And I can't do anything without someone seeing it, knowing about it, having an opinion about it. And I know like there's pop idols who have also felt like they can't hit back. Right? Like your fans come at you over something that really is none of their business and they can't say anything about it. And I think that that's really unfortunate.
Muse
Maybe that's one of the reasons why fans kind of rush in to defend them sometimes too, is that we do have this feeling that it's not that we're infantilizing them and that they can't take care of themselves, it's that we feel like we have to step in because they won't say. and can't, there are things that they can't say
Carrie
Yes, I think so too.
Muse
If you were going to give me a song, a One Direction song.
Carrie
Oh God.
Muse
and said, okay, like, I want you to listen to one song to try and make you a fan.
What song is it?
Carrie
That’s really hard.
I mean, it's hard enough to pick a whole album.
I would need three business days to process that question, I feel. Like if I had to pick an album, I would pick “Four”. So perhaps a song off of Four, but then I think there's some real hidden gems on all the albums, but I find that there's most of them, in my opinion, on Four. So if I was picking one off of just Four, it would probably be...
Fool's Gold, maybe?
Muse
I love Fool's Gold.
Carrie
Well, it depends. They're all such different vibes. Like if you want No Control, it's hilarious and it's rocky and it's just so much fun. But then if you want fool's gold, it's just lovely and heartwarming and it's a moment in itself. So yeah, I think it depends on what mood I'm in, to be honest, and what... what I think you'd be looking for in a song.
Like, Louis chose Where Do Broken Hearts Go to perform on his tour, and he changed it to more of like a rocky sound and added a part in it. And that became my favourite just from him doing that, but that's not how it is on the album. And then to go from there, I don't know. I'm gonna say a whole album and it's Four, and that's just all you're getting.
Muse
Fine.
Carrie
How do you, do you have a favourite song? Just one song, not a favourite, but one you would recommend?
Muse
Yes, actually, because I've done a lot of thinking about this. And the song is called Mikrokosmos.
If I had to recommend one song. Now, if someone comes to me and says, like, “Tell me about these BTS guys, I want you to recommend me some music to see if I like them”, then I have a different approach, which is each individual person, I will ask you what kinds of things you are into, and I will try and tailor that to what you like.
But if I had to recommend just one song, Mikrokosmos,
Carrie
All right, then.
Muse
Because it is a beautiful song. It has a beautiful melody. It is about connection with people who are like the lights and like the stars in the sky. And partly because they did a week of performances that were pre-recorded during COVID for Jimmy Fallon. And the performance that they did for Mikrokosmos, which I will link in the show notes, is probably one of my favourite of their performances.
It’s very, very simple, but they are, they seem very happy and they seem very comfortable and it's very loving.
Carrie
Nice.
Muse
So Mikrokosmos is my answer.
Carrie
That's a very definitive answer and I like the reasons why. I can't do that.
Muse
I actually, I will put this question to our listeners.
So if you are listening out there and you're like, “Pff. I know exactly what my answer would be.” I want to hear from you. I want to know One Direction songs and BTS songs that you would recommend. If you can recommend one song. I don't want a cop-out like Carrie over here and saying a whole album.
Carrie
It's like picking my favourite child. Who can do that?
Muse
You don't have a favourite child? I have a favourite child.
Carrie
This is awkward.
Muse
You're supposed to point out that I only have the one.
Carrie
I preferred it to be awkward.
Muse
Hahaha!
Then I think we can move on to our boy of the week. Hang on a sec.
We can move on to our Boy of the Week. (chime plays)
Carrie
That's a jaunty sound.
Muse
That's our chime sound for Boy of the Week. I put it in the last episode as well. I don't know if I'm going to take it out or not. But yeah. So you're bringing the boy this week.
Carrie
All right, I'm going to do my mom's favourite is Niall as my boy of the week this week. So young Niall Horan, who is Irish from Mullingar, as I mentioned earlier, when he was in the band, he was ‘the blonde one’, but that was contrived. He was not a natural blonde. So now he's back to his brown hair.
Muse
Did he want to be blonde?
Carrie
You know, I don't think so. I think a lot of it was part of the marketing, he's going to be the blonde one. His hair looked really crunchy by the end of One Direction, so I think it was a lot of product and a lot of working over. God love him, he had braces during the band, he had bad knees, he had some surgeries, he was just doing his little thing, but he would still jump in the air with his guitar.
He was living his best boy band life. And you know what? He still does. And he is massive into golf. Is right now, he is on The Voice. He is the most low key member, I would say. We really don't know much about his personal life. He has a girlfriend, Amelia, who has been around for many years. We really know nothing about them. We never, we see them out for a walk sometimes, but that's it. Not really any scandal. There was a little moment with his brother a few years back, but other than that, it's, as Louis said once, it's really easy to be a Niall fan because he's just so lovely and he's funny and takes nothing seriously except obviously he does when it matters, but he is just the most fresh air young man. I don't know. What else do want to know about fair Niall?
Muse
Well you say he plays the guitar. Did he play the guitar when he was in the group? Because they don't play instruments, do they? I mean, in One Direction.
Carrie
He had the guitar. Yeah, in later years he did. Like I said, later years, they were only together for five years, but near the end, yeah, he was playing his guitar. But in his solo stuff, he does play guitar a lot too.
Muse
What's his solo music like?
Carrie
It's really quiet, if that makes sense. A lot of guitar, about love. He seems very romantic from his songs. Sort of, “If the whole world was watching, I'd still dance with you”, being the main lyric that comes to mind.
Muse
That's really sweet.
Carrie
Yeah, he is.
Muse
And he's on The Voice?
Carrie
Yeah, so he's on The Voice. He's been on a few times and every time he's been on as a coach, his person wins. So he takes great pride in the fact that he's in the 100% club. He's very cheeky. So right now this year he's with Reba McEntire, Michael Buble and Snoop Dogg in fact. And he, Reba is always sort of mock complaining that he's just so pretty and all he has to do is blink his eyes. And it's actually really true.
So then the camera pans to him and he's got his little hands under his chin and just blink blink. He does a lot of TikToks. He's the only one that you see on TikTok a lot. Well, Liam used to too, but he'll do like little beauty moments on TikTok where he's got his little jade roller all along his face. He coined the phrase, ‘look fab, feel fab.’ He's just, he's just existing in his best way.
Muse
And what's he like as a coach? Do you see a lot of those moments?
Carrie
He's very encouraging and he knows, like he knows what he needed back in the day and that sometimes he got and sometimes he didn't. And so he has a really effectively gentle way of coaxing out the best in people.
Muse
I am seeing some parallels. That's very interesting.
Carrie
He's honestly, if I'm being honest, he's the one I know the least about and it's mostly because, well, he is cheeky and funny and he's just not in your face with anything.
Muse
He keeps himself to himself.
Carrie
He does, but not in a closed off way. Like he just seems very open, but he's only open to what he wants to be open with, I guess. There's nobody, you know, skulking around his bushes, posting pictures from his living room. He's just, when he's available, he's available. When he's not, he's not. He could have like six children. We would never know, to be fair.
Muse
And if he does, good for him.
Carrie
Exactly. He has a really cool friendship with Lewis Capaldi that is bestie goals because they're absolutely hysterical together.
Muse
Awesome. Okay. Recommend me a song. What's your favourite Niall song?
Carrie
I think going against my like slow and lovely, I think my favourite Niall song is Nice to Meet Ya because it's more rocky than I'm usually used to hearing from him. And I was, I really dug it when it came out. And it's funny because he has a line, I want to tattoo your name on my... my arm but he's the only one without tattoos in the whole band so we were always like “Sure you do, Niall.”
Muse
Want to in a theoretical way.
Carrie
Yeah exactly like you must really like her then if you want her tattoo her name on your arm because you don't do any tattoos ever.
Muse
So to sum up then.
He's adorable. He's a very good coach. He sings lovely romantic songs
Carrie
He does.
Muse
He has good boundaries, he's quiet, we don't hear from him a lot. He sounds adorable.
Carrie
He really is, honestly. He's just so lovely. Like you could just, if he walked into your house, you could just sit and have a tea and hang out with him.
Muse
Well, we should invite him over.
Carrie
We should, you know?
Muse
Niall, if you're listening, can come by for tea anytime.
Carrie
Anytime. Bring Amelia. I'm sure she's lovely. I'd love to meet her.
Muse
Bring the kids if you have them. We don't know.
Carrie
All six.
Muse
Alright, well that wraps things up for us for tonight.
Carrie
Yes, now I'm feeling all whimsical and reflective.
Muse
Excellent, that's exactly where I want to get everyone to.
Thank you everybody for joining us. If you want to hear more, we will be back next month. If you would like to get in touch with us in the meantime, if you have questions and comments, we would love to hear them.
Carrie
Our email is bffsandboybands.gmail.com and we're also on Bluesky at bffsandboybands.bsky.social.
Muse
And for more information on videos or songs that we've discussed, you can check the show notes. I've mentioned a couple of things that I'm going to put in there. We are also building a playlist for this season. So anytime we talk about a song, the song goes in the playlist and you will be able to listen to a nice combo of BTS and One Direction songs. So Mikrokosmos will go in there. I don't know if we will put in the entire Four album?
Carrie
Listen, I'll pick one and surprise everyone and tell you to put it in.
Muse
All right, that sounds great. Next episode, we are going to cover Who's Your Bias?
Carrie
Dun dun dun!
Muse
So what is a bias? Do you have one? Who is, who are our biases? We will talk about all of these things.
Carrie
This has been so fun and I've enjoyed our chat a lot and I look forward to having some more with you.
Muse
I also enjoy our chats as always.
Carrie
Wonderful. Well, until next time, this has been BFFs.
Muse
and Boybands